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RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely. There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time. Jerry It's not personnel wealth that lawyers are after. Lawyers seek a viable/active insurance policy. The average person is not wealthy that's why we refer to the wealthy as 1%'ers. However the average person that owns a vehicle has an insurance policy, which is all the lawyers need to make a suit worthwhile. Commercial vehicles are even more enticing because they have higher liability limits. Commercial vehicles are also less likely to have their policies lapse. I agree a person with little money and no policy has nothing to lose, however business models are generally not built around that persons finances. I think my meaning was missed, as to civil suits. I should have said any civil suit, not just pertaining to auto insurance claims. However, having auto liability insurance is a must, in most cases. How much, does depend on your personal wealth (ability to pay, over and above your insurance you currently have). In my state, a minimum of only 50K liability is required on a personal motor vehicle. In my state, I have the option of posting a bond of this amount, that will be held by the state, until I choose to purchase insurance. This to me, seems foolish for anyone to do. If you have 50K that you can leave sit in the state capitol indefinitely, you have much more to lose in a civil injury suit. For this reason, some are fine with minimum coverage, as they have little for anyone to go after, to collect further damages. Our insurance agent, helps us decide what we need. It may be 100K, for one person, but 500K for the next. In todays world a million dollar liability is common, even on a personal use vehicle. This the reason, that personal wealth matters, in most any suit! My .02 Jerry I agree a person of wealth with more $$$ to lose will opt for higher limits simply because they become a more lucrative case. A person of wealth can also afford the increased cost of the higher limits. In the end its all relative. Accident lawyers are always looking for a case that is easy to win. The richer/bigger the jackpot the better. Exceeding the manufacture's ratings makes the case more enticing to the accident lawyer...which has been my entire point all along. A wealthy person exceeding their ratings is the Lotto for accident attorneys! I'm not saying its just, right or fair But unfortunately in civil court that's the way it is!
Lantley 01/15/21 06:58pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's" The insurance industry is based on probabilities and statistics analyzed by an actuary. I don't think I'd describe it as "what ifs" more weight = more momentum = longer stopping distances and more outward centrifugal forces during cornering. Factor in the million variants like weather, tires, number of axels, brake type and surfaces, is the trailer open or is it like a giant sail in the wind, etc. This is why the "official" numbers are conservative. Has anyone here ever been cited for being overloaded? Loaded dangerously? My guess is that this never comes up until there's an accident or mishap, then the insurance company will use the published numbers to direct the claims. What 'if's maybe a bit of a simple term. But those actuaries and statisticians are trying to determine the likely hood of this or that happening. Again it's not that complicated. There are risk involved and the insurance company tries to foresee and limit their exposure to those risk. There is a weigh station near me. You can tell the trucks that have been put out of service because they have faulty safety items or they are over weight. Granted this is commercial but the law is on the lookout for overloaded vehicles. Another activity at the weigh station in MD are the stealth undercover Suburban's that will pull over all the vehicles trying to slip past the weigh station. Some of those pick up drivers also no the rules while many drivers do not know that they are subject to DOT rules if they exceed 10K GCWR. These vehicles are generally not 18 wheelers or large trucks that know the rules. These are often pick ups pulling trailers of some sort. Landscapers, contractors, homeowners with equipment, racing enthusiast, etc. Seldom see RV's unless they are pulling some sort of race trailer. RV's are specifically exempted from weigh stations.
Lantley 01/14/21 05:50pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's" No, it's based on proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused reason is true cause of the accident. Reasonable doubt are you kidding? Insurance companies will seetlle all kinds of claims if they think its prudent. There is no guilt with liability. Guilt is associated with criminal cases. Liability can be very subjective. Never the less if the insurance company figures it's cheaper to settle vs. fighting it in court with a lawyer. They won't hesitate to settle, even if they believe they were not truly liable Your rates are based on what if this RV is totaled? Who is the bigger risk the guy with a clean driving record or the guy with 3 DUI's in 3 years? What are the chances of the 50 year old male crashing vs. an 18 year old teenager crashing. What car is more likely to have an accident a Corvette or a Camry? All these if's are what the insurance company ultimately pays for and also what we pay for.
Lantley 01/14/21 05:30pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

I try and stay away from the lawsuit conversations and what ifs to follow. The thing I will add is, a person with many assets, and no, or little debt, will always be a candidate for a lawsuit. An injured party, and their lawyer will not waste their time on the average person, that already owes way more than they are worth. Can't say never, but very unlikely. There are more people out there, driving with no liability insurance, than you responsible members here can imagine. The reason is, they have nothing to lose, other than their license, if they have one, and worst case, a short jail time. Jerry It's not personnel wealth that lawyers are after. Lawyers seek a viable/active insurance policy. The average person is not wealthy that's why we refer to the wealthy as 1%'ers. However the average person that owns a vehicle has an insurance policy, which is all the lawyers need to make a suit worthwhile. Commercial vehicles are even more enticing because they have higher liability limits. Commercial vehicles are also less likely to have their policies lapse. I agree a person with little money and no policy has nothing to lose, however business models are generally not built around that persons finances.
Lantley 01/14/21 05:52am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Exactly and you don't have to be a CSI detective to see that the 2500 SRW truck is overloaded pulling that 42'toy hauler, based on its GVW figures. Would not take much to find towing parameters and ratings for the combo involved. It's really not that complicated. Is a Kenworth hauling a Cat D11 on a heavy-haul lowbed trailer "overloaded"? Compared to the standard 80k GVW reefer? What's a towing parameter of a Kenworth to begin with? Why is he legal on the road once all overweight permits are bought? What if he rear-ended a family in a minivan? How's a 20k lbs tractor towing 250k lbs trailer safer than an 8k lbs 2500 towing an 18k toy hauler? There are literally millions of vehicles on the road beyond typical rated use. If we go with "what ifs", then we better all stick with OEM Corollas driven at 50 mph down the freeway. The entire insurance industry is based on "What if's"
Lantley 01/14/21 05:43am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Who says debris gets spread around in every RV wreck? All one has to do is rear end someone at a stop sign/light and cause injury. Only thing messed up is the front of the truck/SUV. The trailer would still be 100% intact. Exactly and you don't have to be a CSI detective to see that the 2500 SRW truck is overloaded pulling that 42'toy hauler, based on its GVW figures. Would not take much to find towing parameters and ratings for the combo involved. It's really not that complicated.
Lantley 01/13/21 05:41pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Disney Transportation question

Depending on when you go 1/2 sounds like a lot. I looked up there prices, while i couldent get the dates i have booked, it was aprox 125 vs 100 for the offsite + fees. Other things to remember, closer to holidays, and such the fort gets expensive, so Christmas may be 300 $$ a night. But around the holidays you get great camping decorations to look at. I did halloween last year and every campsite was decorated to the nines. This was chritmass last year, not my vid, off you tube. https://youtu.be/vABoxIi2jqo Gotcha. I did not realize how much the costs fluctuate at the Fort. We are looking at spring break time and the range for full hookup sites are $190-$237 vs $80-$110 at non Disney parks. So it seems it would cost $100 per day extra to stay at Disney vs. elsewhere. $25.00 is made up instantly via free parking by staying at Disney. Now your paying a $75.00 per day premium for Disney. For me that is an easy decision, again I'm not rich nd may have to cut back or sacrifice in another area but I'm willing to pay $75.00 per day extra to enjoy Disney properties and all that comes with it.
Lantley 01/13/21 05:43am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

If they're an "easy target", it should be equally as easy to find a case to prove me wrong. Unless they got pictures, they can't even prove what trailer I was pulling, let alone how the truck or trailer was loaded. :D That comment is so ridiculous it not even worthy of a reply. We don't need know stinking pictures...LOL Can we agree this is 2021? Everyone and his brother travels with a phone capable of taking pictures. In todays world we don't need an accident to take pictures. Some of us just take pictures of ourselves in the form of selfies. Have an accident there will be no shortage of pictures. For the record there will be a police report with vin numbers and all that mumbo jumbo. Someone with an interest to make money will turn those vin numbers into weights and ratings.Yup it’s all so easy. Pictures, police reports, weights and ratings. Just one little inconvenient truth, you can’t come up with even one case to prove me wrong. What a conundrum for something so easy it must be done every day. Did you google over weight trucks? It will give you all kinds of proof!
Lantley 01/12/21 06:16pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

If they're an "easy target", it should be equally as easy to find a case to prove me wrong. Unless they got pictures, they can't even prove what trailer I was pulling, let alone how the truck or trailer was loaded. :D That comment is so ridiculous it not even worthy of a reply. We don't need know stinking pictures...LOL Can we agree this is 2021? Everyone and his brother travels with a phone capable of taking pictures. In todays world we don't need an accident to take pictures. Some of us just take pictures of ourselves in the form of selfies. Have an accident there will be no shortage of pictures. For the record there will be a police report with vin numbers and all that mumbo jumbo. Someone with an interest to make money will turn those vin numbers into weights and ratings.
Lantley 01/12/21 04:40pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

That gets back to what are you towing and with what truck. I see combo's all the time that I know are exceeding their GVW... I don't need to know the actual weights because these vehicles are grossly overloaded based on their GVW. We all see 3/4 ton trucks towing large toy haulers that exceed their GVW. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to notice a truck exceeding their GVW. I understand they may not be exceeding their axle and tire ratings but they are still exceeding their GVW as stated by the manufacturer. I understand they maybe legal by DOT standards, nevertheless if they are exceeding their GVW they are an easy target in civil court should an accident occur. I'm not even saying I agree that it is right or fair that our court system works that way. We have become a suit happy society with ambulance chasing lawyers that love cases where they can proclaim some sort of negligence. Criminal court and civil court are very different and operate on very different standards. Google overloaded trucks and see what you get!
Lantley 01/12/21 07:26am Tow Vehicles
RE: Waste Tote Recommendations

I have a barker 42 gallon with pneumatic wheels. Works like a champ. Yes it is heavy when its full, but you don't have to pick it up! It rolls like a red wagon. You simply roll it to the truck and the truck pulls it to the dump. The 42 gallon tote holds the entire contents of my 40 gallon grey tank. I can dump everything in one trip!
Lantley 01/12/21 06:44am General RVing Issues
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

.... The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone. Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available. However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court. Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything. That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing. I don't think any blanket statements apply.Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong.I know what your saying. Since you would spend forever and still not find one, that would be a giant waste of time, Your right. There are no injury lawyers looking for cases 24/7. Those commercials I see are an illusion. Given a case involving an overloaded vehicle a lawyer would never pursue that angle. Maybe I should cancel my liability policy, get a smaller truck and fly by the seat of my pants cause a guy on the internet said it doesn't work that way.
Lantley 01/11/21 07:18pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

.... The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone. Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available. However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court. Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything. That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing. I don't think any blanket statements apply.Plenty of lawyers on here, go ahead, provide a link to an actual court case, prove my "blanket" statement is wrong. sorry I don't have that kind of time to waste
Lantley 01/11/21 03:05pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Lots of opinions/theories on rv websites pertaining to how or when a mfg GVWR is used. On rv websites we hear we can be sued for exceeding the mfg GVWR in case of accident with injury. On haulers websites using the same size trailers and tow trucks we don't face civil lawsuits scenario/overweight tickets if were over the vehicle mfg GVWR. Any theories why this is ??? No theory Jim, but an obvious answer! It is the difference of a recreational users opinion, compared to someone who makes their living every day towing/hauling, and NEEDS to know these things. Said it for you. :) Jerry If you somehow want me to believe "haulers" are exempt from civil suits when there is an accident, I don't agree. I guess haulers don't need liability insurance either. Lawyer's goal s to win and get paid. They will use any advantage they can. If they can show a vehicle exceeded the manufacturers rating it will "carry weight" with a jury. ( no pun intended;) Jury's are not DOT officials that really understand the law or ratings, They are often sympathetic citizens, who have no problem sticking it to that dangerous/overloaded truck pulling that big trailer. Tire and axle ratings won't enter the equation.
Lantley 01/11/21 08:41am Tow Vehicles
RE: looking for info

If you are feeling adventurous you can stay at Cape Henlopen state park, Delaware Seashore park or Massey's landing and take the Lewes Ferry to Cape May and the Jersey Shore. Further South in MD there is Assateaque State Park. Frontier town and Castaway's. Rates for the private parks within the ocean/beach corridor are climbing through the roof. Nevertheless getting a site during peak season can be tough , I suggest you act now if your plans are for July.
Lantley 01/11/21 06:14am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

.... The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone. Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available. However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court. Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!Once that truck or trailer leaves the scene of the accident the lawyer loses all ability to prove anything. That really depends on the truck and what it was carrying/towing. I don't think any blanket statements apply.
Lantley 01/10/21 04:14pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

The legal definition of overweight is either tires/axles or registered weight. GVWR is not a legal definition; neither is "payload". If you're truck's RAWR is 7,000 and the scaled weight on that axle is 7,000 or less you are not legally over weight. Even if your overall truck is over it's GVWR. However, if your total truck weight is, say, 12,000 pounds but your truck is only registered for 10,000 pounds then you are legally overweight. Again, GVWR has nothing to do with it. As to the fairly low payload of the truck in question, they are assuming a 150 pound passenger in every seat according to the text posted. So if the truck has 6 seat-belt positions and it's just the driver in there you can add 5 x 150 pounds to that "payload" rating. There are LOTS of kinds of traielrs; by far the most difficult to tow is a hard wall RV type of trailer. Boat, flatbed, utility, dump, etc. are all far easier to tow and generally have a lower percentage of pin/tongue weight if loaded correctly. The definition of legal weight will be decided in civil court if there is a suit. The opposing lawyer will attempt to show negligence anyway possible. If the lawyers can establish one where exceeding any of the manufacturers ratings it will give them data and ammunition to use against someone. Now I don't believe this data is routinely presented in court because for the most part the hard data is not available. However I'm not naïve enough to believe over ratings data is never presented in civil court. Civil court is not traffic court. Civil court is not deciding if you get a ticket. Civil court decides on negligence and the law suit portion of a case. In a case involving loss of life there are often two trials!
Lantley 01/10/21 08:25am Tow Vehicles
RE: Smartplug Converstion

I updated my travel trailer with 50 amp service to the Smartplug system about a month ago. One of the best Mods I have done. The change over adding the new socket to the RV, and the new connector to the power cord was simple and didn’t take very long. It has a much more solid connection than the old twist lock and is very weather resistant. What prompted me to make the change was a cracked twist ring that would not get tight enough to secure the plug in the socket and as a result was getting hot when using high amperage. I agree without the locking ring the twist lock cord is a liabilty. However the locking ring can be purchased separately and replaced. I have replaced my ring. There is no need to replace the entire setup over the ring.
Lantley 01/09/21 07:52pm Travel Trailers
RE: Smartplug Converstion

My trailer came with a twist lock detachable cord. I had failures with the blades in the cord end, the wires loosened in the inlet and the cheesy plastic ring was troublesome. I installed a locking hatch and modified it to exclude pests, then hard-wired a cord. You can argue about the merits of various contacts all you want, but I prefer a continuous wire where it passes thru combustible materials. Pulling out only what I need, easily wiping the cord clean and no need to carry and find a storage place are additional benefits. I agree the plastic ring is troublesome. My thought is the ring is the root of all evil with the twist lock connector. Most people don't take the time to ensure the ring is snug and tight. If the ring is not properly snugged the connection becomes loose and the problems begin. If you take the time to use/secure the twist lok properly it works fine. My current connection is 8 years old and still working.
Lantley 01/09/21 11:24am Travel Trailers
RE: Seven points campground Raystown lake PA

Been going to Raystown lake for years. It's much tougher to get a spot these days. Reservations can be made 6 months in advance, nevertheless they are still hard to get these days. All the loops are great. Depending on what you want. Some are closer to the water and have great water front sites. Some are wooded, others are totally open. Raystown has lots of trails, and a neat mountain bike track. You can also bring a boat or rent a boat if you are a boater.
Lantley 01/09/21 08:37am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
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