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JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/11/18 08:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

full_mosey wrote:

L;

At this time you might want to READ Chapter 5. Section 5.4 Charging.

HTH;
John


Excellent - thanks for the link, John. Just did some reading - and will read more later.

L

JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/11/18 08:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Page 14 second paragraph down might be more applicable when commissioning...

It would prove to be irrational in this case to wait until a charger is available. Install battery then before or after work, take it for a one-hour drive. Good enough.


Thanks Mex. I appreciate it.

L

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Posted: 02/11/18 08:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

full_mosey wrote:

L;

Wire sizing for battery draws can be confusing when there is an inverter involved.

An inverter is a constant Wattage device where the Watts drawn from the battery are determined by the 110VAC appliance making the draw. What happens is that battery Volts drop and Amps rise over time. Both of these factors dictate wire size and both are changing in opposite directions.

Using your cooker's 580W draw, let's see why your inverter is alarming. With a 10.5V low Volts alarm, your inverter is saying it can't get 580/10.5 = 55Amps input. That is the worst case ignoring any alternator contribution.

Alarm situation - Voltage drop percentage: 3.73%.

Shorten the wire to 16"(1.33').

Voltage drop percentage: 0.33%.

If you draw the full 2000W with 4Ga, 2000W/11V:

Voltage drop percentage: 1.09%.


Here is mine at 1000W/11V 2/0Ga 3.5' one-way:

Voltage drop percentage: 0.45%.

Try another test with best case 14.4V as you might see with the alternator where Amps would be 580/14.4 = 40A.

Since cables are a one-time cost there is good reason to go for lowest loss% in worst case situations.

HTH;
John


Thanks for all the info and thoughts, John.

I'm out of time tonight and will re-read etc. and order cables tomorrow, as well as post some pictures the top of my van with some solar ideas.

Thoughts welcome, and will go back and read the past posts etc. tomorrow.

L

JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/11/18 08:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Fully charged electric impact will work OK.

A breaker in the engine compartment for the house battery is a good idea. Try to locate the breaker reasonably close to where the new intertie cable branches off of the vehicle connection block where the house cable originates from.

Use nylon 1/4" rope and duct tape to hold the rope in place (you can use nylon tie wraps or whatever else works for you).

Trace the path from the alternator battery stud and use the original harness path to wend your way around to the battery positive connection point. Of course the new breaker gets installed near the connection point so end the long run of rope where you want the breaker to go.

Then continue on with a 2nd length of rope to the battery positive connection point.

Breakers have 1/4" studs, so now your count is up to (3) 8-gauge by 1/4" ring terminals. Your connect-to-the-harness at the battery terminal size is unknown to me.. Genuinedealz can make up completed cables for you. Eight gauge cable from circuit breaker to new house battery is plenty big enough


http://www.genuinedealz.com/circuit-brea........ussmann-185-series-surface-mount-100-amp

[image]

Note this style of breaker can be clicked off with the push of a button so the wire leading to the house battery can be removed at the house battery without danger of sparks. Bussman, is a dependable brand of circuit breaker.


Thanks Mex. I appreciate all the suggestions. Will add this to my purchase list for tomorrow, along with your suggestions for cable size. Appreciate it much.

L

JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/12/18 04:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

full_mosey wrote:

L;

Wire sizing for battery draws can be confusing when there is an inverter involved.

An inverter is a constant Wattage device where the Watts drawn from the battery are determined by the 110VAC appliance making the draw. What happens is that battery Volts drop and Amps rise over time. Both of these factors dictate wire size and both are changing in opposite directions.

Using your cooker's 580W draw, let's see why your inverter is alarming. With a 10.5V low Volts alarm, your inverter is saying it can't get 580/10.5 = 55Amps input. That is the worst case ignoring any alternator contribution.

Alarm situation - Voltage drop percentage: 3.73%.

Shorten the wire to 16"(1.33').

Voltage drop percentage: 0.33%.

If you draw the full 2000W with 4Ga, 2000W/11V:

Voltage drop percentage: 1.09%.


Here is mine at 1000W/11V 2/0Ga 3.5' one-way:

Voltage drop percentage: 0.45%.

Try another test with best case 14.4V as you might see with the alternator where Amps would be 580/14.4 = 40A.

Since cables are a one-time cost there is good reason to go for lowest loss% in worst case situations.

HTH;
John


Hi All,

I'm planning to pull the trigger on 2 16" 2/0 cables to connect the battery and the inverter tonight.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/2-0-awg-custom-battery-cables

Am I on target here?

I'm still trying to figure out if I can use my existing 4 gauge wire to connect the house and the starter battery (?), and how much 8 gauge wire I need for the alternator swap etc. (I've been re-reading Mex's / various posts - I think I may need to pop the hood tonight and measure ?) ...

L

full_mosey

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Posted: 02/12/18 07:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JohnnyGood wrote:



Hi All,

I'm planning to pull the trigger on 2 16" 2/0 cables to connect the battery and the inverter tonight.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/2-0-awg-custom-battery-cables

Am I on target here?

I'm still trying to figure out if I can use my existing 4 gauge wire to connect the house and the starter battery (?), and how much 8 gauge wire I need for the alternator swap etc. (I've been re-reading Mex's / various posts - I think I may need to pop the hood tonight and measure ?) ...

L


Use a fuse with that 2/0 cable.

I have this:
[image]
type of fuse holder. I needed an 8" red cable between this and the battery. One problem is that I had to tape the cover on the fuse holder because the the 2/0 cables were too big.

This may not be the right type of fuse for the 2000W inverter. I use 250A because the max Amp spec for my 1000W is 133A. I would allow at least enough to cover the 4000W peak surge of your inverter. 400-500Amps would protect the 2/0 cable and allow maximum use of the inverter.

I believe the 4Ga cable will be adequate to pass charge current to the Lifeline.

With the engine off, and a battery separator like the Sure Power 13-15, the inverter Amp draw will be limited to the Lifeline. With the engine running, the draw will be shared. Just don't have any extra length coiled up.

Run the numbers through the wire sizing site.

HTH;
John

JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/12/18 07:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Search site and find how to order pre-made up cables and terminals


https://allbatterysalesandservice.com/su........ator-bi-directional-w-aux-start-1315-200

This bi-directional relay is the exact part number you need to charge your batteries AUTOMATICALLY from the alternator and the engine starting battery from the new solar panels.


Just ordered the bi-directional relay. $113 with shipping.

JohnnyGood

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Posted: 02/12/18 07:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

full_mosey wrote:

JohnnyGood wrote:



Hi All,

I'm planning to pull the trigger on 2 16" 2/0 cables to connect the battery and the inverter tonight.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/2-0-awg-custom-battery-cables

Am I on target here?

I'm still trying to figure out if I can use my existing 4 gauge wire to connect the house and the starter battery (?), and how much 8 gauge wire I need for the alternator swap etc. (I've been re-reading Mex's / various posts - I think I may need to pop the hood tonight and measure ?) ...

L


Use a fuse with that 2/0 cable.

I have this:
[image]
type of fuse holder. I needed an 8" red cable between this and the battery. One problem is that I had to tape the cover on the fuse holder because the the 2/0 cables were too big.

This may not be the right type of fuse for the 2000W inverter. I use 250A because the max Amp spec for my 1000W is 133A. I would allow at least enough to cover the 4000W peak surge of your inverter. 400-500Amps would protect the 2/0 cable and allow maximum use of the inverter.

I believe the 4Ga cable will be adequate to pass charge current to the Lifeline.

With the engine off, and a battery separator like the Sure Power 13-15, the inverter Amp draw will be limited to the Lifeline. With the engine running, the draw will be shared. Just don't have any extra length coiled up.

Run the numbers through the wire sizing site.

HTH;
John


OK - sounds like I'm on target with the 2/0 wire, and I need to add a fuse (so - two 8" cables on the red, yes?).

Perhaps I can find a fuse that's better suited for this (so I don't have to tape etc.)? Suggestions?

Also, in the current setup I have the black terminal on the inverter connected to the body of the van. In the new setup with the lifeline, I am connecting it to the black terminal of the battery, yes?

Thanks,

L

PS I will wait to post solar pics/ideas until the cables are set, to keep things simpler

full_mosey

Oklahoma

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Posted: 02/13/18 06:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JohnnyGood wrote:



...
In the new setup with the lifeline, I am connecting it to the black terminal of the battery, yes?

Thanks,

L

PS I will wait to post solar pics/ideas until the cables are set, to keep things simpler


Correct.

I ran the NEG/black 2/0 3' cable from battery NEG to inverter NEG. On POS/red, I ran the 8" cable from battery POS to the fuse, then the 3' cable from the fuse to the inverter POS.

There are 500A fuses for my fuse holder. The holder cover is sized for up to 0Ga cable and it doesn't snap on and that is why I lash it with tape. I believe that holds the cover on better than the simple snap on/off. Anyway, that is what I did and that is as far as I can do on that. Other's advice/comment would be welcome.

HTH;
John

JohnnyGood

Los Angeles

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Posted: 02/13/18 10:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

full_mosey wrote:

JohnnyGood wrote:



...
In the new setup with the lifeline, I am connecting it to the black terminal of the battery, yes?

Thanks,

L

PS I will wait to post solar pics/ideas until the cables are set, to keep things simpler


Correct.

I ran the NEG/black 2/0 3' cable from battery NEG to inverter NEG. On POS/red, I ran the 8" cable from battery POS to the fuse, then the 3' cable from the fuse to the inverter POS.

There are 500A fuses for my fuse holder. The holder cover is sized for up to 0Ga cable and it doesn't snap on and that is why I lash it with tape. I believe that holds the cover on better than the simple snap on/off. Anyway, that is what I did and that is as far as I can do on that. Other's advice/comment would be welcome.

HTH;
John


Thanks John.

L

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