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 > Ram 6.4L Hemi vs good ol' 8.1L

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ib516

Way up north eh

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Posted: 02/13/18 05:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Frostbitte wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.


Rumour has it that the 8-speed for the 6.4 2500 is in the works. Don't have any specifics or dates though...

I realize it's a different application, but if they can makes the 8 speed able to hold 800hp in the demon, and tow 12k in the 1500, it shouldn't be too much trouble to make it survive towing duty in a 2500.


Prev: 2010 Cougar 322QBS (junk)
01 Dodge 2500 4x4 360 Gas 4.10 Auto
02 Dodge 2500 4x4 5.9L CTD 3.55 Auto
07 Dodge 3500 4x4 SRW Mega 5.9L CTD 3.73 Auto
14 Ram 2500 4x4 Crew 6.4L Hemi 4.10 Auto
All above are sold
Current: 2006 Chev 1500 and a 2010 Jayco 17z


mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Posted: 02/13/18 07:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wilber1 wrote:

I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.


Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.


Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

BurbMan

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Posted: 02/13/18 08:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.


Like the buzz that was flooding the forums 15 years ago about "piston slap" on the 8.1's...yes they are noisy when they start up, yes they use 1 qt of oil every 3k miles, but that's how they were designed...


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1stgenfarmboy

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Posted: 02/13/18 08:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.


Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.






Duty cycle in a transmission is heat, add a little extra cooling and there is no reason it won't be fine.

there is a guy that has posted in this thread with a half ton that tows every day pretty heavy IMO for 390k so far with an 8spd, so I thing that statment of yours was off a little.



torque is torque, just some applacations use it longer, so more heat.
same exact load on the trans.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.



1993 Dodge W350 Cummins with all the goodies
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn 2wd 395hp
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2001 Super Sherpa & 2012 DL650A go along also


wilber1

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Posted: 02/13/18 11:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

1stgenfarmboy wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.


Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.






Duty cycle in a transmission is heat, add a little extra cooling and there is no reason it won't be fine.

there is a guy that has posted in this thread with a half ton that tows every day pretty heavy IMO for 390k so far with an 8spd, so I thing that statment of yours was off a little.



torque is torque, just some applacations use it longer, so more heat.
same exact load on the trans.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.


So what exactly does a manufacturer mean when they rate a transmission for torque? The ZF is used in many vehicles and it doesn't specify what kind its rating applies to.

A locked clutch or torque converter doesn't generate heat. Anyone who tows with a transmission temperature gauge knows that. The ZF torque converter locks in every gear and in 1st it only unlocks when the vehicle is stopped and just starting to move. It is used exclusively for vehicle launch.

* This post was edited 02/13/18 03:01pm by wilber1 *


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mich800

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Posted: 02/13/18 06:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think realistically the short answer is they just have not tested it enough and tuned it. The bigger trucks do not fall under CAFE yet so they have been picking different battles.

alexleblanc

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Posted: 02/14/18 05:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

other than the 1-2 gearing gap, everything I've read on the 6.4 ram with the 4:10 and even 3:73's seems to be very good as a towing platform if you choose to go gas.

Do yourself a favor and at least try the F250-350srw with the 6.2, with both 4:30's and 3:73's they are quite the beast with a very well geared and proven transmission behind it.

Regardless of what you do both the Ram and the Ford has very potent gas V8 options. The Gm option is a good truck however I think they have a little work to do on their gas offering to get back to being competitive.


TV - 17 F350 CCSB SRW Platinum 6.7 + 5er - 15 Durango 296BH + B&W Companion
others - 17 Shelby GT350 | 17 Explorer Sport | 14 Mustang GT | 87 Regal GN | 37 Plymouth Coupe | 16 Kawasaki Mule Pro-FXT | 12 John Deere 1023E


BurbMan

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Posted: 02/14/18 07:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.

MFL

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Posted: 02/14/18 08:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BurbMan wrote:

I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.


One thing I've learned over the years, concerning warranty issues, whether trucks, or motor sports vehicles, the dealers approach and standing with the manufacturer, can make a difference. I have received assistance from Ford, and even Yamaha Motor Sports, after my warranty period had ended. I have also seen the nice guy be denied, when deserving warranty, and the a-hle get warranty, when they shouldn't.

Jerry





alexleblanc

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Posted: 02/14/18 09:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BurbMan wrote:

I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.


it's all in the dealership in my experience, and one of the main reason's I buy Fords locally. if your GM or Ram dealer is really good to deal with and they have a product that will serve your needs, that's always the best choice IMO.

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