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 > How common are parks with "cheater" 50amp service?

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Ralph Cramden

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Posted: 10/05/18 03:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

I disagree wholeheartedly with the signage idea. It is impossible to sign every possibility of misuse of the park. There is another thread running where someone's kids spraypainted trees and picnic tables. Is a sign needed for that as well? If you want to use the park facilities for anything other than what they were intended for, ASK. (And be willing to accept the answer)


Yah I suppose at some point signage can be overdone. Common sense and manners should rule but, you know, there’s always one....

As an RV park owner you are certainly better equipped to answer this question. Have you had to deal with this yet? If so how did it go? Good to have a campground owner on here discussing it. Any plans for a couple level two stations? This could make it a bit more of a cash flow item...eventually. [emoticon]. Not a lot out there yet but a couple thousand more every day.
Not interested at all in charging EVs. Don't want to do it for fun or profit.


I suspect you never had the urge to build a gas station or Quickie Mart in the middle of your park either. How about a drive through automatic car wash?

maillemaker

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Posted: 10/05/18 07:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

The eventual goal across the country being one of having the EV owner's cost per mile for their use of electricity in the ballpark with the cost per mile to power a fossil fuel vehicle of approximately the same weight or some other criteria.


If electricity is cheaper than fossil fuels, why artificially make it more expensive?

Now absolutely taxes are going to have to be re-figured for EVs, probably based on mileage, since roads are about half-paid for with gasoline taxes.

But there is no reason to artificially inflate the cost of electricity. The whole point is to go to lower-cost solutions.


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Dusty R

Charlotte Michigan 48813

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Posted: 10/05/18 07:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have zero experience with EVs, that being said, I would think that charging their batteries would take some time, much more time than filling a gas tank on other vehicles. that being said, I would think that coffee shops and restaurants would be a likely places to have charging stations.

Dusty

doc brown

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Posted: 10/05/18 08:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Experienced that once in 14 years. Back in 2005 we were on Cape Cod and we wanted 50 amps so they gave us a cheater.


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pnichols

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Posted: 10/05/18 10:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

maillemaker wrote:

Quote:

The eventual goal across the country being one of having the EV owner's cost per mile for their use of electricity in the ballpark with the cost per mile to power a fossil fuel vehicle of approximately the same weight or some other criteria.


If electricity is cheaper than fossil fuels, why artificially make it more expensive?

Now absolutely taxes are going to have to be re-figured for EVs, probably based on mileage, since roads are about half-paid for with gasoline taxes.

But there is no reason to artificially inflate the cost of electricity. The whole point is to go to lower-cost solutions.


Renewable energy sourcing of our stick-house electricity can be provided - if we choose it - by our power company. BUT ... they want to charge MORE for it than getting it from their other regular sources for our home's electrictiy. Go figure!

EV owners should not get free or below-market cost electricty for their vehicles. If so, the rest of us are paying for it for them. That's not right.

* This post was edited 10/07/18 06:23pm by pnichols *


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca 324V Spirit

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Posted: 10/05/18 11:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Subsidies are incredibly expensive because government insists on hiring nine hundred percent more employees than necessary to monitor them. Add the time and expense for a company to fill out tons of paperwork and guess who pays for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of producing electricity?

The PRIME DIRECTIVE of a government agency is to make it's existence ESSENTIAL and to obtain funding to allow it to GROW.

I hate to say this but some of you desperately need to take a course in economics and learn how the world actually works.

Think of government like this:

A charity where as much as 95% of the donations are applied against administrative costs.

maillemaker

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Posted: 10/05/18 11:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

EV owners should not get free or below-market cost electricty for their vehicles. If so, the rest of us our paying for it for them. That's not right.


No one has suggested that anyone should get free or below-market cost of electricity for any purpose.

Charging an EV vehicle costs about half per mile what gasoline costs at $.12/kWh for electricity and $2.50/gallon for gasoline.

So again, I see no reason why we should artificially raise the cost of electricity to be on par with gasoline.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/constancedouris/2017/10/24/the-bottom-line-on-electric-cars-theyre-cheaper-to-own/#70bbd6b10b65

westernrvparkowner

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Posted: 10/05/18 01:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ralph Cramden wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

I disagree wholeheartedly with the signage idea. It is impossible to sign every possibility of misuse of the park. There is another thread running where someone's kids spraypainted trees and picnic tables. Is a sign needed for that as well? If you want to use the park facilities for anything other than what they were intended for, ASK. (And be willing to accept the answer)


Yah I suppose at some point signage can be overdone. Common sense and manners should rule but, you know, there’s always one....

As an RV park owner you are certainly better equipped to answer this question. Have you had to deal with this yet? If so how did it go? Good to have a campground owner on here discussing it. Any plans for a couple level two stations? This could make it a bit more of a cash flow item...eventually. [emoticon]. Not a lot out there yet but a couple thousand more every day.
Not interested at all in charging EVs. Don't want to do it for fun or profit.


I suspect you never had the urge to build a gas station or Quickie Mart in the middle of your park either. How about a drive through automatic car wash?
Or a body shop, a rental car agency, an oil change franchise, a restaurant, a beauty parlor, a museum, a zoo or any of the million other things that might interest a recreational vehicle owner. If someone has bought a vehicle that is less than convenient to refuel, that is their problem, not mine.

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 10/05/18 08:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:


Renewable energy sourcing of our stick-house electricity can be provided - if we choose it - by our power company. BUT ... they want to charge MORE for it than getting it from their other regular sources for our home's electrictiy. Go figure!

EV owners should not get free or below-market cost electricty for their vehicles. If so, the rest of us our paying for it for them. That's not right.


Correct on BOTH counts.

Electric customers in PA has had for many years the option to choose where and how the power for their home or business is generated. I could choose a "renewable" only power source, but if I did, it would easily increase my power bill by 50%!

Dyed in the wool pro "renewable" folks stick their heads in the sand believing that "renewable" energy is "clean" AND "CHEAP", it is neither.

Solar only works when the sun shines AND it HAS to be a pretty CLEAR DAY, heavy cloudy, overcast, rainy, snowy day(s) IT DOESN'T WORK well enough to produce enough energy to PAY BACK THE MONEY SPENT ON SOLAR!

Not to mention, solar power MUST be "converted" from DC to AC, that takes HUGE EXPENSIVE INVERTERS.

Wind generation only happens when there is enough wind, that means they must find suitable sites which have at least CONSTANT 12 MPH and higher winds, less than 12 MPH and not enough power to light a single LED..

TOO MUCH wind and they MUST turn the wind turbine out of the wind..

Typically anything over 20 MPH and they must shut down the turbines to prevent overspeeding which can easily destroy hundreds of thousands of Dollars invested in one wind turbine..

The cost of purchasing, installation and ongoing maintenance MUST be accounted for and in the end those supposed "renewables" end up costing the POCO much more to generate power than traditional methods.

The cost of buying, installing, maintaining is cost averaged over the "expected" life of the installation. And you the consumer takes it on the chin..

As far as EV owners getting a "free ride" or subsidized low cost charge, yeah, you might be getting that now, but eventually it WILL catch up to you in one way or another..

It may mean you pay a yearly "use tax" to register your car, it may mean a special smart meter system on your car that computes and reports your use to a tax office and you get a bill in the mail..

Or it could simply mean that EVERYONE MUST SUFFER WITH ADDITIONAL TAXES ADDED TO THE ELECTRIC BILLS..

It may even mean that you might even get BOTH a smart meter AND much higher electric bill taxes..

IF everyone changed from gas/Diesel to electric only then State and Federal road use taxes revenue stream would drop to zero.. Those taxes are used to build and maintain the roads we ALL use and without that revenue stream the Government WILL have to FIND ANOTHER WAY TO GET THAT MONEY..

Something else to consider, your batteries lose capacity EACH TIME YOU CHARGE/DISCHARGE, eventually you WILL be forced to spend an outrageous cost of replacement batteries or buying a new vehicle, IF the manufacturer is still "supporting" your vehicle..

Most likely will happen before you ever get it paid off..

Then there will be the mountains of spend EV batteries laying around that are simply not economically feasible to recycle. It costs MORE to recycle Lithium based batteries than if you use all new materials..

At least with Lead acid batteries, they can reclaim nearly 100% of the lead at much lower cost than the raw materials..

There is no "common" battery pack for any EVs, you can't plant just any battery into any EV.. The only way EV can make some sort of economical sense is if ALL of manufacturers would agree to ONE COMMON battery standard..

Standardization is key to making a product at a lower cost, Henry Ford understood that and that is how he was able to make a Model T at a much lower cost than anyone else at that time.

MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 10/05/18 09:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What I find interesting is folks who saw and chop their own firewood seem to be less radical about where their electricity comes from. If they boondock or just off grid that is one thing, but on-grid homeowners who process their own airtight stove wood seem to have considerably less enthusiasm for electric cars as well.

The USA may end up with two hundred million electric vehicles while the rest of the world ends up with two billion combustion engine vehicles.

With energy and pollution only the bottom line has validity. And the numbers I see above raise my eyebrows. Lower CO2? Like that little old lady squealed when she lifted the bun "Where's The Beef?"

"Feel Good" will not do a damned bit of good to lower the percentage. The entire world needs to do it. Kumbayah? 99.9% of the solar panels China makes is to power homes not motor vehicles.

I just hate it to be seated next to people at a theater movie when I have the plot in a bag boredom is setting in and other people are ecstatically oohing and awing.

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