Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: New Federal Fuel Economy Standard (SAFE)
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 > New Federal Fuel Economy Standard (SAFE)

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pitch

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Posted: 04/04/20 06:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Matt_Colie wrote:

Some states are setting up to do that by requiring the annual odometer reading at registration. The electric guys are going to get nailed....

Matt


Why would you say nailed? I am sure that the "electric guys" will be assessed what the state feels is appropriate. Aren't really sure why you consider that "nailed"

8.1 Van

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Posted: 04/04/20 09:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TurnThePage wrote:

Ford will win in the end by staying the course. The US will, as usual lately, fall further behind the rest of the civilized world. SOP

Ford and GM are in BIG Trouble


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Reisender

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Posted: 04/04/20 10:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The video sums it up pretty good. I’ll disagree on two points.

1. I don’t think Tesla leads in self driving technology. They are doing okay and following their own path but this race is not over yet.

2. The US goverment will not let either Ford or GM fail no matter how badly run they are. Expect them just to become annual tax burdens even if they just have a crusher at the end of the assembly line. Way to big to fail. They will probably become brands unique to the US, though as it won’t even be legal to sell them anywhere else in the world. This will take a couple decades though. Provinces and states like B.C. Quebec, California, Washington and Oregon will probably outlaw fossil fueled passenger vehicle sales in the next two decades. BC and Quebec have already passed into law 2040 but that will probably be changed to sooner.

The other thing that has happened with this Covid 19 thing is cities are seeing the cleanest air ever all over the world as everybody is driving less. That will shape public policy all over the world in the next decade.

Interesting times we live in.

* This post was edited 04/04/20 11:53am by an administrator/moderator *

2oldman

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Posted: 04/04/20 10:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

The other thing that has happened with this Covid 19 thing is cities are seeing the cleanest air ever all over the world as everybody is driving less. That will shape public policy all over the world in the next decade.
One would hope so.

Lynnmor

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Posted: 04/04/20 11:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Of course the power is generated outside the cities, so not much difference in my area.

* This post was edited 04/04/20 11:51am by an administrator/moderator *





ShinerBock

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Posted: 04/04/20 02:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

The video sums it up pretty good. I’ll disagree on two points.

1. I don’t think Tesla leads in self driving technology. They are doing okay and following their own path but this race is not over yet.

2. The US goverment will not let either Ford or GM fail no matter how badly run they are. Expect them just to become annual tax burdens even if they just have a crusher at the end of the assembly line. Way to big to fail. They will probably become brands unique to the US, though as it won’t even be legal to sell them anywhere else in the world. This will take a couple decades though. Provinces and states like B.C. Quebec, California, Washington and Oregon will probably outlaw fossil fueled passenger vehicle sales in the next two decades. BC and Quebec have already passed into law 2040 but that will probably be changed to sooner.

The other thing that has happened with this Covid 19 thing is cities are seeing the cleanest air ever all over the world as everybody is driving less. That will shape public policy all over the world in the next decade.

Interesting times we live in.


How will the poor and those living in low income section housing be able to afford these vehicles and charge them especially those living in housing projects? If government offers them money to buy these vehicles, then that is subsidizing the EV industry.

Regardless of my feelings about Tesla, I do believe it is one of the best examples of trickle down economics. It was started by a rich person because he was able to make and save enough money in a capitalist system. He then gathered enough other wealthy investors to go into his plan which created lots of jobs. Since it is new technology, it had to be sold at a premium which only the wealthy could afford which in turn created more jobs. This process continues over and over again until there is enough wealthy people buying these cars to make them cheaper for the middle class to afford all while creating more and more jobs as sales increase. This could not have happened if the wealthy had enough money to invest in the company and/or purchase its initial products because Tesla would not have enough money to create the technology and new jobs without them.

* This post was edited 04/04/20 02:38pm by ShinerBock *

Reisender

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Posted: 04/04/20 04:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Reisender wrote:

The video sums it up pretty good. I’ll disagree on two points.

1. I don’t think Tesla leads in self driving technology. They are doing okay and following their own path but this race is not over yet.

2. The US goverment will not let either Ford or GM fail no matter how badly run they are. Expect them just to become annual tax burdens even if they just have a crusher at the end of the assembly line. Way to big to fail. They will probably become brands unique to the US, though as it won’t even be legal to sell them anywhere else in the world. This will take a couple decades though. Provinces and states like B.C. Quebec, California, Washington and Oregon will probably outlaw fossil fueled passenger vehicle sales in the next two decades. BC and Quebec have already passed into law 2040 but that will probably be changed to sooner.

The other thing that has happened with this Covid 19 thing is cities are seeing the cleanest air ever all over the world as everybody is driving less. That will shape public policy all over the world in the next decade.

Interesting times we live in.


How will the poor and those living in low income section housing be able to afford these vehicles and charge them especially those living in housing projects? If government offers them money to buy these vehicles, then that is subsidizing the EV industry.
.


How will the poor afford them? Same as they do now I suppose. Buy used, inexpensive models are starting to show up in Europe. Charging is just an evolutionary process. Some communities are already bringing in compulsory workplace charging. The supply will evolve to meet the demand. Things are not static. Infrastructure will evolve.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 04/04/20 06:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This process will many years. Go to the projects or the southside of San Antonio where my father patrols. People are still driving cars from the 80s and 90s because they can barely afford a $5k car let a lone the means to charge it or the $6k for a new battery which will likely be needed bu that time.

Not only that, but many of these projects don't have garages with multiple people owning cars in the same house. They don't have the money for fancy solar panels and will have to rely on city power which will likely sky rocket to meet demand since San Antonio, just like over 80% of the current infrastructure, does not have the money for even half of the vehicles being EV let alone all of them. Yeah, things are fine right now because EV's are such a small percentage of the market, but what will happen when EV's are half?

It is a lot different than when gasoline was adopted because unlike gasoline that can easily be put in a tank and shipped anywhere, you can't just up and do that with electricity especially when you are talking about the amount that is needed because it requires all these independent utility companies to dig up the old wire to replace it with larger wire for the amount of energy that it will require.

Some of you guys comments on how easily you think it is shows that you never actually been on the poor side of town to know how it is. It is not that easy by just sprinkling gentrification everywhere thinking that it will all take care of itself. I am not saying that it isn't going to happen, but thinking that we are ready for 100% or even 50% of the market being EV's in the next two decades is a unrealistic

* This post was edited 04/05/20 11:02am by ShinerBock *

Reisender

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Posted: 04/04/20 06:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Agreed. But in many places it will be against the law to buy anything but an EV by 2040. The actual use of gas and diesel cars in service will continue for many years after for the reasons you described. It’ll happen faster in some places than others. In many places though it will just be to expensive (in comparison) to drive and maintain a gas or diesel powered vehicle. The average commuter needs about 6 to 8 kw of power for their daily needs. Manufacturers have made it clear they are not going to get that much more efficiency from an ICE. Unless the petroleum industry finds a way to bring down the cost of fuel production the industry is going to start to hurt as right now they loose money on every barrel of fuel. Although we would all like the price of fuel to stay low at some point they will have to return to profit. It’s an important industry as many products such as plastic, synthetics, lubricants, ashphalt etc all come from the petroleum industry. A balance needs to be found between the North American industry and opec.

Jmho.

* This post was edited 04/05/20 06:48am by an administrator/moderator *

wa8yxm

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Posted: 04/05/20 05:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A 2% increase in oil consumption... strangly 2% is what we buy from the Suadi's.


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