Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Class A Motorhomes: F53 V10 Manifold Bolts
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Class A Motorhomes

Open Roads Forum  >  Class A Motorhomes  >  Projects & Upgrades

 > F53 V10 Manifold Bolts

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 2  
Next
garyemunson

Reno, Nevada

Senior Member

Joined: 09/27/2015

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 07:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Our Winnebago Class A with it's Ford V10 just joined the ranks of those with broken manifold studs and a leaking exhaust manifold. When it warms up next week I'll dig in and fix it. Thought I'd try to reason out why this is such a common issue, particularly on the F53 motorhome chassis. I'm harkened back to the 70's when I first started tinkering with motorhomes and am reminded of all the "classic Flying W" Winnebagos that came on the Dodge chassis with the old 413 V8. Toward the end of their existence, almost all of them ended up with tubular headers as the stock cast iron ones just couldn't stand the heat under an RV doghouse and cracked. That was so common it got pretty much impossible to find a good used RV 413 header in junkyards and as Dodge had discontinued that engine in favor of the 440, they soon (10 years) stopped selling new 413 manifolds making aftermarket "racing headers" the only game in town for the 413. I'm leaning towards my theory two things are contributing to the V10 manifold gasket issue. One is that the V10 is part of the "modular" Ford engine family where many parts are common across the multiple size engines. The metric manifold studs are about the size of a 5/16" bolt. This is no doubt sufficient for a V6's short manifold but probably borderline for a V8 and CERTAINLY too wimpy for the V10's longer exhaust manifold. The V10 should have been built with 3/8" studs. This leads to what I'm thinking is the REAL culprit causing the manifold leaks. First off, I see it's most often the passenger side that starts the tick-tick-ticking leak first. As the manifolds, bolts, and gaskets are the same on both sides, you would expect there shouldn't be a preference for the passenger side to leak first. What I propose as the problem has to do with the fact that the F53 chassis has the engine offset towards the passenger side. Crawling under the wheel well, the right manifold is quite exposed to air and road splash water from the tire. I'm thinking this uneven heating of the manifold coupled with the undersize bolts for such a longer manifold gives more "leverage" for the manifold to try to warp up and this is what causes the often seen broken rear manifold studs. The driver's side is much more protected being further to the right and more removed from the left front wheel (and has a bunch of cables, hoses, and other stuff between the engine and wheel). The older 70's Winnebago engines actually set up inside the taller doghouses where the engine was more removed from road draft and splashing from the tires (and transmitted a LOT more heat and noise to the passenger compartment). This made them run much hotter though, and more prone to cracking manifolds from the heat. With the "basement" design of modern motorhomes, the drivetrain is now mostly down below the cabin floor, much more exposed. I think what happens is that going down the road, particularly during hill climbing, the right exhaust manifold ends up very unevenly heated, the side against the engine much hotter than the side toward the wheel. Once I do my repair, I'm going to mount a piece of galvanized metal on the passenger side to the frame that will extend up to the bottom of the cabin floor. Mounted to the outside of the frame rail will put it about 5-6" inches away from the manifold so it will still get plenty of cooling air from the front like the left side but will be protected from most wind and water splash directly from the right front tire. I feel this will make the right manifold's environment much more like the left's hopefully making this a one-time repair. You can see YouTube videos and read about owners having to do this fix several times which I want to avoid. If you need to do this repair, also be advised that it is very important to take the manifold down to your local automotive machine shop and have the mating surface planed flat again. The manifold starts leaking because the rear of it has warped up and "curled away" from the cylinder head surface and this distortion is permanent but easily fixed by planing it . I'm pretty confident the machine work and my DIY shield will make this a one time repair for me.

MountainAir05

New Mexico

Senior Member

Joined: 01/27/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 08:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My 99 never had the issue. But I did put headers with new bolts not long after purchase.

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

Senior Member

Joined: 03/23/2004

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 10:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My Excursion had the V-10. I did the drivers side first. then a year later I did the passenger side. there is no pattern for the failure. I think its from the size of the hardware. the studs are just too small and the heat cycle weakens them and they break. another thing I noticed which I think contributes to it is that there is a shoulder on the stud which stops the stud. so the stud doesn't have anything positive to tighten against other than the shoulder so this lets the stud wobble around (albeit by a very micro amount) and over time it fatigues and breaks. because when you go to remove the broken pieces they will spin freely in the head. but when trying to remove them they stick at the threaded opening because the shoulder deformed the threads. If I was to do it again and had the time I would drill them out to the next larger size.

And yes, there is a reason the header bolts don't break. because the bolts have a positive stop and are torqued properly against all the threads.


Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!


Dale.Traveling

Newport News, VA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/16/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/20/20 12:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

72,000 miles on my 2006 stock V10 and no bolt failures. 90% of those miles are from May to September in the summer heat. The engine offset is only 45mm (less than 2 inches) to the curb side.

I think you need to look more at the design of the coach house and airflow, or lack of flow, to help keep heat under control.

[image]


2006 Hurricane 31D built on a 2006 Ford F53


Gjac

Milford, CT

Senior Member

Joined: 08/16/2006

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 02:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you live out west and drive more in the mountains than on a flat slab I would would add headers instead of just replacing the gasket. I don't think the V-10 develops as much heat as the 460 or 454's both of which are known to crack the manifolds as well as burn through the gasket, but if you already have leaks or cracks, most of the work is in removing the manifold bolts anyways. You will add about 50 more HP and your engine will run cooler.

Gjac

Milford, CT

Senior Member

Joined: 08/16/2006

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 02:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dale.Traveling wrote:

72,000 miles on my 2006 stock V10 and no bolt failures. 90% of those miles are from May to September in the summer heat. The engine offset is only 45mm (less than 2 inches) to the curb side.

I think you need to look more at the design of the coach house and airflow, or lack of flow, to help keep heat under control.

[image]
I think the air flow is very important. I had to add an air dam to force cool air though my radiator. The original design had the radiator 2-3ft behind the grill which was all open and most off the air just went under the radiator instead of through it.

theoldwizard1

SE MI

Senior Member

Joined: 09/07/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 10:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The V10 is a member of the Triton/"Modular" engine family. They all have high mileage issues with exhaust manifolds/gaskets. Ford does sell a stainless steel stud kit ($$$). Not sure how well it works.

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

Senior Member

Joined: 03/23/2004

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/20/20 10:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The problem with SS is that when they break again they are hard to drill!

T18skyguy

Eugene, OR

Senior Member

Joined: 12/13/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/20/20 11:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sometimes planing doesn't fix it permanently, cause your removing metal which which makes the planed manifold run that much hotter. If your going to keep it, I would do headers. It's so much work to have to do it again someday. The manifold cools mostly through the head via the coolant flow. If you give your radiator and engine a good flush that can help. But your idea of extra air is a good one too. You sound like an old timer like me [emoticon] Remember the days way back when we didn't have warping manifolds or brake rotors? They cheapened up the metal by removing the nickel content, and it been nothing but trouble ever since. Good luck with the job. My knuckles ache just thinking about it. Don


Retired Anesthetist. LTP. Pilot with mechanic/inspection ratings. 2017 Jayco Greyhawk 31FS. Wife and daughter. Three cats which we must obey.

JoeH

Apollo Beach,FL

Senior Member

Joined: 02/21/2001

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/21/20 04:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MountainAir05 wrote:

My 99 never had the issue. But I did put headers with new bolts not long after purchase.

I also had a 1999 v-10 and after about a year of so installed a Banks kit. I sprayed everything down with penetrating oil for a couple days prior and everything came out fine.


Joe
2013 Dutch Star 4338- all electric
Toad is 2015 F-150 with bikes,kayaks and Harley aboard

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 2  
Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Class A Motorhomes  >  Projects & Upgrades

 > F53 V10 Manifold Bolts
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Class A Motorhomes


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2020 CWI, Inc. © 2020 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.