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SUMRX4

VA

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Posted: 09/20/21 03:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In looking at the door stickers on my truck I am a little confused.
The sticker that has the tire info states never exceed 3,720lbs payload. Trailering info sticker states same thing for max payload.
But then the J2807 ratings part states max tongue weight of a goose neck is 3,100lbs. Would this be the same for a 5th wheel? I assume it would but the sticker only states conventional trailer and gooseneck.
Is it unsafe to tow a gooseneck or 5th wheel with a tongue weight over 3,100lbs even if your total payload is under 3,720?
Just want to understand my limits here before I buy something too big.

Thanks

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/20/21 03:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Payload includes looking at both axles and the GVWR.

5th wheel/gooseneck weight sits directly over the rear axle, so all the weight goes onto the rear axle. It can't take advantage of any payload boost the front axle provides.

Reality is a little more complicated but that's the main jist of it.

Be careful if you have replaced the tires or rims to make sure they don't have a lower rating than the stock items.

Also, keep in mind, since all the passenger and storage space is behind the front axle, any people or gear you put in the truck will at least partly wind up on the rear axle, so if you have a 3100lb hitch weight and 2 - 200lb people get in the truck, you will be over the weight rating on the rear axle.

If you are slightly over the ratings, the truck isn't going to go up in a ball of flames the second you put it in drive but you are pushing it hard and will have less margin for error.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 09/20/21 03:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

By your ratings, you presumably have a 1 ton srw truck. And said truck will have between 3000-3500lbs on the rear axle with fuel, some passengers, etc, but otherwise basically empty truck. Your "rated" rear axle capacity is probably 7000lbs givertake, which is based on the weakest links being the ratings of the OE tires and rims. Leaving 3500-4000lbs for remaining payload. (May require or desire a little suspension help)
If you're asking the question, err on the side of caution a little, both due to your inexperience towing/handling this size/weight of trailer and also to account for other "stuff" that may be detract from remaining payload.

Splitting hairs between the sticker "ratings" is a futile exercise and really just a good ballpark for a "safe" capacity.


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rhagfo

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Posted: 09/20/21 05:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SUMRX4 wrote:

In looking at the door stickers on my truck I am a little confused.
The sticker that has the tire info states never exceed 3,720lbs payload. Trailering info sticker states same thing for max payload.
But then the J2807 ratings part states max tongue weight of a goose neck is 3,100lbs. Would this be the same for a 5th wheel? I assume it would but the sticker only states conventional trailer and gooseneck.
Is it unsafe to tow a gooseneck or 5th wheel with a tongue weight over 3,100lbs even if your total payload is under 3,720?
Just want to understand my limits here before I buy something too big.

Thanks


This is a GM only sticker and as far as I know not mandatory.
That said,
Now one more thing the lawyers can point to if you are over it.
I don’t know how GM can specify a max pin weight less than the maximum payload. The max payload should account for a 150# driver and full fluids. So if a driver is 150# or less, they should be able to use the total listed payload.
That is a 620# difference, if 7,000# rear axle less 3,100# leaves 3,900# for empty rear axle.
It would be great to have an explanation of this 3rd sticker on GM’s!


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KD4UPL

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Posted: 09/20/21 07:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It used to be that GM subtracted 150 pounds for every seating position from the payload to arrive "maximum" trailer payload.

SUMRX4

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Posted: 09/20/21 08:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for the responses. I assume GM states max pin weight at 3100 even though the max payload is 3700 simply to give a little room for stuff that is going to be in the truck regardless. Fuel, Driver, etc.
I bought this truck thinking it would easily tow any 5er we would want. Well I didn't realize the floor plans we both want turned out to be 40+ feet long. Looking at luxury models in that length I am seeing GCWs in the 16,000 range. To error on the side of caution I'm taking 20% of the GCW for a theoretical "max" pin weight. But that's putting some of them at 3200 or better depending on model. Now I don't think she and I would ever max out any RV. It's just me and her and 2 dogs. No kids etc. I have had two TT previously and I doubt I ever had 1,000 pounds of stuff in either of them.
All that being said I don't want to do something stupid and put us and others at risk on the road. Am I being to cautious or what? I'm only talking a couple hundred lbs. either way. Not like I'm wanting to hitch to something with a 5,000lb pin weight.

Grit dog

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Posted: 09/20/21 10:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well it’ll be fine. We’ve now established you have a GM?
What other cryptic bread crumbs can you throw out there like year, model, engine, cab/bed configuration?
Or I’ll guess…. Duramax crew cab. Am I right?
I’d have zero issue dumping up to 4klbs of total payload including pin on the back. If you’re puking a 40 footer I’d want a long wheelbase too.

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/21/21 04:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SUMRX4 wrote:

Thanks for the responses. I assume GM states max pin weight at 3100 even though the max payload is 3700 simply to give a little room for stuff that is going to be in the truck regardless. Fuel, Driver, etc.
I bought this truck thinking it would easily tow any 5er we would want. Well I didn't realize the floor plans we both want turned out to be 40+ feet long. Looking at luxury models in that length I am seeing GCWs in the 16,000 range. To error on the side of caution I'm taking 20% of the GCW for a theoretical "max" pin weight. But that's putting some of them at 3200 or better depending on model. Now I don't think she and I would ever max out any RV. It's just me and her and 2 dogs. No kids etc. I have had two TT previously and I doubt I ever had 1,000 pounds of stuff in either of them.
All that being said I don't want to do something stupid and put us and others at risk on the road. Am I being to cautious or what? I'm only talking a couple hundred lbs. either way. Not like I'm wanting to hitch to something with a 5,000lb pin weight.


That's not being conservative.

5th wheels normally are 20-25% on the pin, so a 16,000lb GVWR (not GCW) trailer 3200lb is assuming you are at the low end of pin weight. Conservative would be up around 4,000lb if near 25%.

Did you ever take those prior trailers in and weigh them? You'd be surprised how easy it is to get up to 1500-2000lb of cargo.

Vanished

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Posted: 09/21/21 06:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Big Trailers need Dually's to have sufficient safety margin for recommended max payload...


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mkirsch

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Posted: 09/21/21 11:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SUMRX4 wrote:

Thanks for the responses. I assume GM states max pin weight at 3100 even though the max payload is 3700 simply to give a little room for stuff that is going to be in the truck regardless. Fuel, Driver, etc.
I bought this truck thinking it would easily tow any 5er we would want. Well I didn't realize the floor plans we both want turned out to be 40+ feet long. Looking at luxury models in that length I am seeing GCWs in the 16,000 range. To error on the side of caution I'm taking 20% of the GCW for a theoretical "max" pin weight. But that's putting some of them at 3200 or better depending on model. Now I don't think she and I would ever max out any RV. It's just me and her and 2 dogs. No kids etc. I have had two TT previously and I doubt I ever had 1,000 pounds of stuff in either of them.
All that being said I don't want to do something stupid and put us and others at risk on the road. Am I being to cautious or what? I'm only talking a couple hundred lbs. either way. Not like I'm wanting to hitch to something with a 5,000lb pin weight.


More than likely the 3100 vs 3700 is performance related, as the J2807 specs also include performance as part of the requirements.

The only thing the extra weight is going to do is slow you down.

As others have stated 20% is the exact opposite of "conservative." That's in "wishful thinking" territory. Conservative would be looking at it from a worst case scenario. With a 40'+ 5ver you could be looking at a pin weight of 5000lbs, which is less than 33% of your trailer's GVWR.

Safety is about having a well maintained vehicle in good condition more than anything else. The performance, or lack thereof, will drive you toward a more capable vehicle LONG before what you are driving is truly "unsafe" if you are anywhere near the ratings.


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