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valhalla360

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Posted: 09/27/21 10:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blaczero wrote:

I have 2 100Ah batteries right now and 200w of solar. Just trying it out to see how it works for us before I spend 10k+. The inverter was reviewed well and only $500


I think you need to step back and layout a full system...a couple 100Ah batteries will be an issue unless you limit the inverter to a small fraction of it's capability.


Tammy & Mike
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2021 Gray Wolf
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Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


Gdetrailer

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Posted: 09/27/21 10:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blaczero wrote:

makes sense...

It's funny, if you look up reviews of inverters on the internet, a lot of times they'll include "didn't ship with wires" sort of thing. Maybe they're throwing them in to just check that box.

The inverter is listed as 1a idle draw, so 12w, which I thought was great. I want to be able to run a tv, computer, charge phones and laptop, and possibly run a dehumidifier if/when I need.

I have 0awg left over from the battery project so I'll end up using that from the battery to inverter and read the manual to find out what size breaker I need.


Have to be careful on reviews, lots of shills for and against the products. I read the middle of the road reviews as they tend to be the most honest.

Most inverters can be traced back to being Chinese imports, they may work, but they are often way over rated. One should never buy solely on reviews or low pricing, there is a reason why there are inverters that cost much more than $500 and yet deliver much less wattage than what you have bought.

Fr charging low wattage items like cell phones and laptops, I would suggest a completely different route.

For cellphones, tablets and any other device that use USB 5V charging cables, go with 12V to 5V USB chargers. The ones that plug into a 12V cig/power port in your car.. Much more direct, much less idle current draw than a inverter.

Looks like this..

[image]

You can add in your own 12V power ports in your RV by buying cig lighter/power ports..

Like this..

[image]

You can also buy combo 12V/USB 5V power ports.

Like this..

[image]

For laptops, you can buy universal 120V/12V power supplies which are designed to plug into 120V AC or 12V DC and use special changeable tips that set the power supply to your laptops needed tip and voltage.

Like this..

[image]

This one is what I bought for my DD to use for her Dell i7 quad core 2 in one PC. Works great on 120V and 12V.

Found HERE for $35..

Phones, laptops are so low of a power draw that it doesn't make sense to run them through a 12V to 120V inverter and then from 120V to 5V or 120V to 19V laptop power supplies.. You can run these devices more direct with correct chargers that run from 12V and save a lot of needless wasted energy in the process.

Each voltage conversion has a power loss, typically with inveters you looking at as low as 80%-85% conversion efficiency meaning 15%-20% is lost in heat during the conversion depending on the load.

5V USB chargers laptop 12V chargers will have at least 90%-94% conversion efficiency typical of switching power supplies.

blaczero

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Posted: 09/27/21 01:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

blaczero wrote:

I have 2 100Ah batteries right now and 200w of solar. Just trying it out to see how it works for us before I spend 10k+. The inverter was reviewed well and only $500


I think you need to step back and layout a full system...a couple 100Ah batteries will be an issue unless you limit the inverter to a small fraction of it's capability.


Ya I agree, but again, I started at 3500 watt so I don't have to buy another down the road (who knows, maybe I still will).

This is the one I got, its pure.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092Z8F4H1

blaczero

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Posted: 09/27/21 01:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

blaczero wrote:

makes sense...

It's funny, if you look up reviews of inverters on the internet, a lot of times they'll include "didn't ship with wires" sort of thing. Maybe they're throwing them in to just check that box.

The inverter is listed as 1a idle draw, so 12w, which I thought was great. I want to be able to run a tv, computer, charge phones and laptop, and possibly run a dehumidifier if/when I need.

I have 0awg left over from the battery project so I'll end up using that from the battery to inverter and read the manual to find out what size breaker I need.


Have to be careful on reviews, lots of shills for and against the products. I read the middle of the road reviews as they tend to be the most honest.

Most inverters can be traced back to being Chinese imports, they may work, but they are often way over rated. One should never buy solely on reviews or low pricing, there is a reason why there are inverters that cost much more than $500 and yet deliver much less wattage than what you have bought.

Fr charging low wattage items like cell phones and laptops, I would suggest a completely different route.

For cellphones, tablets and any other device that use USB 5V charging cables, go with 12V to 5V USB chargers. The ones that plug into a 12V cig/power port in your car.. Much more direct, much less idle current draw than a inverter.

Looks like this..

[image]

You can add in your own 12V power ports in your RV by buying cig lighter/power ports..

Like this..

[image]

You can also buy combo 12V/USB 5V power ports.

Like this..

[image]

For laptops, you can buy universal 120V/12V power supplies which are designed to plug into 120V AC or 12V DC and use special changeable tips that set the power supply to your laptops needed tip and voltage.

Like this..

[image]

This one is what I bought for my DD to use for her Dell i7 quad core 2 in one PC. Works great on 120V and 12V.

Found HERE for $35..

Phones, laptops are so low of a power draw that it doesn't make sense to run them through a 12V to 120V inverter and then from 120V to 5V or 120V to 19V laptop power supplies.. You can run these devices more direct with correct chargers that run from 12V and save a lot of needless wasted energy in the process.

Each voltage conversion has a power loss, typically with inveters you looking at as low as 80%-85% conversion efficiency meaning 15%-20% is lost in heat during the conversion depending on the load.

5V USB chargers laptop 12V chargers will have at least 90%-94% conversion efficiency typical of switching power supplies.


I get what you're saying. I'd like everything to be DC and not have to invert. I am buying a new RV in a couple weeks so I'll be kitting that one out with what you've listed (usb 5v stuff). For now, I do have some USB ports in my rig, but they're too low a wattage to charge my laptops unless I replaced them.

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 09/27/21 01:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blaczero wrote:



I get what you're saying. I'd like everything to be DC and not have to invert. I am buying a new RV in a couple weeks so I'll be kitting that one out with what you've listed (usb 5v stuff). For now, I do have some USB ports in my rig, but they're too low a wattage to charge my laptops unless I replaced them.


A few feet of 12ga wire to a new 12V cig/power port from either your batteries or your fuse block which ever is easiest to get to, would get you into using a universal 12V DC to laptop charger right now.

Much cheaper and easier than retrofitting your existing RV with a huge inverter not to mention which you are planning to make the existing RV go away anyways which means ripping out the inverter upgrade.

This would give you time to think out what you are going to do without committing to needless upgrades.

Unless you are planning to run the A/C from battery you can easily get away with a far smaller inverter..

Running a dehumidifier from inverter/battery is going to be a tall enough order.. Even the smallest (20 pint) compressor based dehumidifiers typically will draw 6A(1.1Amp for compressor and 4.9A for the fan)at 110V (roughly 700W). That would translate to roughly 60A at 12V, 24 hrs of that will mean you need 1440Ahrs worth of battery capacity to if you ran it continuous just for the dehumidifier alone.

If dehumidifier is your biggest load, then a 1200W inverter for it and a smaller 300W-400W inverter for small items like TV would basically all you need.

Putting all your eggs into one huge inverter basket in this case is not the most efficient way to go about this.

otrfun

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Posted: 10/03/21 04:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blaczero wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

blaczero wrote:

I have 2 100Ah batteries right now and 200w of solar. Just trying it out to see how it works for us before I spend 10k+. The inverter was reviewed well and only $500
I think you need to step back and layout a full system...a couple 100Ah batteries will be an issue unless you limit the inverter to a small fraction of it's capability.
Ya I agree, but again, I started at 3500 watt so I don't have to buy another down the road (who knows, maybe I still will).

This is the one I got, its pure.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092Z8F4H1
One downside to larger inverters is higher parasitic current. Parasitic current is the current the inverter draws when it's sitting idle with no load. Most 2000w (high-frequency) inverters typically have parasitic current in the 1-2a range. Odd are this 3500w you ordered will be in the 2-4a range. In 24 hours, 4a can discharge two, paralleled, 100ah 12v batteries (200ah total) down to ~50% (lead cell batteries would need recharging at this point); 2a would discharge down to ~75%. FYI, this draw-down occurs with the inverter just sitting in your camper, turned on, but with no load. In addition, your camper probably has its own parasitic current (typically around 1a) to add to the mix, too. It all adds up.

As mentioned, you're going to need a lot more than two 100ah batteries to power a 3500w inverter under more than a 50-60% load. A good quality, properly wired/powered, 2000w high-frequency inverter will power a Micro-Air equipped, reasonably efficient 13.5k a/c, microwave, hair-dryer, etc. Unless you have a need to power two of these devices at the same time, a 2000w inverter will suffice.

blaczero

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Posted: 10/03/21 06:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for all the advice so far.

The 3500w inverter I got is listed as 1a idle draw. It also has a remote pannel that I can install in a convienient place to shut it off when not in use too.

The size is what is constricting me right now. I have a travel trailer and will get a 5th wheel soon. No storage bin in the front, so I don't have many places to mount the inverter without going over 5' in length away from the batteries.

I may hold off on the inverter for this rig and just go with running a 20a 12awg from dc main panel to a housing with cigarette lighter/usb inputs and a 90+w dc charger for the laptops (they all charge USB C)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTBXHEV/

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098TKDDGC

Thanks to the above poster for the idea.

otrfun

On The Road

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Posted: 10/04/21 05:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blaczero wrote:

. . . The 3500w inverter I got is listed as 1a idle draw . . .
A parasitic current of 1a is suspiciously low for a 3500w inverter. Got to wonder if that’s a true, unrestricted rating. Some manufactures use a so-called “power saver” mode to reach low parasitic ratings. In this mode small loads (such as a phone charger) are ignored. Only larger loads will activate the inverter.

blaczero

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Posted: 10/04/21 07:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That sounds good to me. I'll never be charging my cell via AC again after this set up. Putting DC USB charging ports all over the rig.

My overall goal is to run everything I can from DC (TV, laptop/cell charge, small fans, LED light strips, etc)

Itinerant1

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Posted: 10/04/21 08:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My Magnum 3000w inverter has 2a idle draw with enough batteries and solar it's not a big issue just leaving it on 24/7. If you're going to be switching it on and off then it shouldn't matter unless you forget to turn it off.


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,800+ cycles.

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