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 > Giants/Dodgers called swinging strike...end of game

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akaPedro

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Posted: 10/15/21 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So Flores swing did not appear to me to be much of an attempt. I looked in the MLB rule book and did not find anything to define a swinging strike.

What is the rule....if any. Just the ump's judgement ?

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Posted: 10/15/21 02:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

as far as i recall it's what, in the ump's judgment, was the batter's intent. i always thought it was whether or not the bat broke the plane of the plate.


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monkey44

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Posted: 10/15/21 03:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rule says: Broke the plane of the plate ... that's why the HPU asks the base ump because he can see it better. That's the claim anyway. Sometimes, I believe the umps leave their glasses at home.

But, that's always been part of the game - If they every go to E-Umps, I will quit watching baseball.

I think it evens out over a complete game though... Good Call, Bad Call, some for each game.


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rk911

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Posted: 10/15/21 03:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

Rule says: Broke the plane of the plate ... that's why the HPU asks the base ump because he can see it better. That's the claim anyway. Sometimes, I believe the umps leave their glasses at home.

But, that's always been part of the game - If they every go to E-Umps, I will quit watching baseball.

I think it evens out over a complete game though... Good Call, Bad Call, some for each game.


what rule number did you find?

aftermath

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Posted: 10/15/21 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In a game like baseball there are a lot of missed calls, or bad calls in this case. It is sad that the game ended because of it

I was told one time that the umpires on first and third base were to watch the bat as it moves forward. If the ump can see the "end" of the bat, the barrel must have crossed the plate. I have seen many replays and most of them show the bat actually pointing at the first base ump during the swing. I looked closely at this replay, and I didn't see that.....at all.


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monkey44

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Posted: 10/15/21 05:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rk911 wrote:

monkey44 wrote:

Rule says: Broke the plane of the plate ... that's why the HPU asks the base ump because he can see it better. That's the claim anyway. Sometimes, I believe the umps leave their glasses at home.

But, that's always been part of the game - If they every go to E-Umps, I will quit watching baseball.

I think it evens out over a complete game though... Good Call, Bad Call, some for each game.


what rule number did you find?


I didn't look it up, but I was Director of a Youth Baseball Program, a BoD on a College Baseball Program. And, did some umpiring ... I just remember the rule not the number. Rule book can probably be found online somewhere ... I no longer have mine - it's been a few years. A lot of years, actually. [emoticon]

monkey44

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Posted: 10/15/21 05:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Actually, tried to find it but found this. Although we were always under the guidelines as stated here ... so it is slightly ambivalent. Breaking wrists or past the plate -- The umpires usually confer if it's not obvious. In my opinion, a bat can cross the front of the plate even if the wrists do not 'roll-over' ... depending on the position of the batter and the plate. The batter can 'spin' in place on occasion, not break the wrist, and still cross the plate. I did not see the controversial call on the Giants last night - but will check it tonight on replay and see how it looks - but as always, the call is the call.

Begin:
The Major League Baseball rulebook does not contain an official definition for a checked swing, but defines a swing as "an attempt to strike at the ball". It is the decision of the umpire as to whether an attempt was made or not. Generally, factors such as whether the bat passes the front of the plate or the batter pulls their wrists back are considered in the ruling. Some umpires prefer to use the "breaking the wrists" criterion as the method to decide a checked swing: if the wrists "rolled over", a swing occurred.

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Posted: 10/15/21 05:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In any game there probably a dozen strikes call that are missed either in or out.
It's part of the game it's just that this one just got some national focus.

The umps are human who don't have the advantage of super slow motion.

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rk911

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Posted: 10/15/21 05:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

Rule says: Broke the plane of the plate ... that's why the HPU asks the base ump because he can see it better. That's the claim anyway. Sometimes, I believe the umps leave their glasses at home.

But, that's always been part of the game - If they every go to E-Umps, I will quit watching baseball.

I think it evens out over a complete game though... Good Call, Bad Call, some for each game.

that may be in the leagues you worked but apparently not in MLB. i'm still looking but found this a few minutes ago:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/exa........tly-check-swing-purely-umpires-judgment/

an excerpt:

So how far does a big league hitter have to go with his swing in order for a pitch to be called a strike? Is it when he "breaks his wrists'' trying to hold up? Or when his bat crosses the plate? Or when he appears to be trying to hit the ball?

Don't bother looking for it in the Official Baseball Rules: Amazingly, in the nearly 200 pages that govern Major League Baseball, there's no mention of how to decide.

Officially, it's purely an umpire's judgment.


and this...

https://baseballrulesacademy.com/lesson/what-is-a-swing-5/

monkey44

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Posted: 10/15/21 08:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In Youth Baseball, and College when I was active - we did not have cameras to counter-guess the calls. And it's fairly new in MLB too, otherwise, we'd not have this kind of controversy. Umps and human judgement has always been a part of the game - now, it's challenged and complained about frequently.

Looked at the swing from last night - my opinion, he did NOT swing. But the ump called it, so the game is the game. As mentioned above, plenty of pitches and at least some plays in the field are debatable, if not inaccurate. But again, umps are human.

BTW: As stated, I don't recall the actual rule, it was probably more in discussions about how we handle or call it ... I remember it as roll-the-wrist, or past the plate. It seems MLB is not hard and fast on definition either.

That call will forever be controversial ... but we move on an enjoy the games regardless. It's unlikely, down to the final strike, that would have changed the game or the winner anyway, but it's possible. We'll never know ... Enjoy the games guys, whichever team you root for - we just hope it's good competition.

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