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 > Can't imagine a world without internal combustion engines

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d1h

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Posted: 11/16/21 07:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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pitch

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Posted: 11/17/21 07:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We will not have to imagine a world with out ICE.
While alternate energy sources will provide power for our future many engines will still be of the ICE family, albeit with different fuels.
I would absolutely be thrilled if petroleum fueled engines were put to pasture, butI do not see that happening for a century.
Time and technology waits for no man.
You can be the old man sitting on his porch screaming impotently or you can accept that the future is bright.

mr. ed

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Posted: 11/17/21 07:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I can’t imagine it, either. I have my own reasons for preferring internal combustion engines, even though that may not be politically correct nowadays.


Mr. Ed (fulltiming since 1987)
Life is fragile. Handle with prayer.

2007 Hitchhiker II LS Model 29.5 LKTG (sold)
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Deb and Ed M

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Posted: 11/17/21 08:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Electric, at its current state, simply won't work for us. Little EV cars might make great grocery getters/errand runners; but anything that needs to run for an extended time, needs an engine. Tell a farmer or cross-country truck driver they can't have an internal combustion engine.....LOL!

And where I live in Michigan - the infrastructure won't support charging a bunch of EVs - my lights flicker when my neighbor turns on his table saw....LOL!

3 tons

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Posted: 11/17/21 09:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Especially since no empirical evidence whatsoever exist (free of funded-source outcome bias…) to demonstrate that EV production actually leads to less ‘net’ pollution than do ICE vehicles…Unfortunately, in many of today’s academic scientific endeavor’s, outcome-based science (grant funded outcome modeling) has eclipsed conventional Scientific Methodology as the long standing dominant means of ‘fact gathering’…

3 tons

BCSnob

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Posted: 11/17/21 09:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

To avoid the bias you are referring to you should get your information from peer reviewed scientific journals where the study and results are reviewed by others not funded to perform the study. An example for this topic would be the journal Energy where this study of cradle to grave emissions of Greenhouse Gases from EVs in China were evaluated.

Life cycle greenhouse gas emissions of Electric Vehicles in China: Combining the vehicle cycle and fuel cycle
Energy Volume 177, 15 June 2019, Pages 222-233
Quote:

Abstract
Electric Vehicles (EVs) are known as the future vehicles that have the potential to provide environmental benefits all over the world. The Greenhouse Gas (GHG) emissions of EVs have already been estimated for each phase in the life cycle. However, the dedicated estimations in China are not complete enough to reveal the systematic impacts of real manufacturing technologies, driving cycle and recycling processes. This study has analyzed the GHG emissions of the Cradle-to-Gate (CTG) phase, Well-to-Wheel (WTW) phase and Grave-to-Cradle (GTC) phase for different vehicles in different time to figure out the key drivers and reduction opportunities, which are based on the well-selling A0-A class compact sedan model currently in China. The results indicate that the life cycle GHG emissions of an EV are about 41.0?t CO2eq in 2015, 18% lower than those of an Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle (ICEV). This value will decrease to only 34.1?t CO2eq in 2020 due to the reduction of GHG emission factor of electricity. Although the WTW phase is the largest contributor of GHG emissions for both vehicles, the proportions of each phase are quite different. The GHG emissions of the WTW phase of an EV are decreasing rapidly, but the CTG phase will not be improved at the same speed, which may become a barrier to fully take the environmental benefits of an EV. There are two major opportunities for reduction in the entire life cycle besides fuel economy development. One is EV recycling that can reduce the GHG emissions of the CTG phase by about a half. The other is the improvement of clean power grid that can further reduce the GHG emissions of the WTW phase.


Having gone through the review process from a few peer reviewed journals I can attest to the details are carefully reviewed; experimental methods are reviewed, incomplete data can be required to be blustered with additional tests, and interpretation of results can be challenged. Publication can be put on hold or rejected based upon the peer review process.

* This post was edited 11/17/21 09:23am by BCSnob *

3 tons

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Posted: 11/17/21 11:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sadly, one could site the many potential abuses that can occur within the modern academia Peer-to-Peer review process (what’s sometimes called “Pal-Review”!!) as well as a debased ‘peers-helping-fellow-peers’ gain prestige via ‘softball questioning’ and evaluation (Einstein never had it so Good!!)…

To pretend as though these institutional egregious abuses do NOT occur (admittedly occasional) denies cogent reality (where might we find such Saints?) - though i this regard, I’m quite content to rely upon others to draw their own independent and learned conclusions …

However (curiously so, to my broader, more impactful issue…), I do note that no attempt has been made to deny the re-emergence of ‘outcome based modeling’, this a widely practiced methodology used in previous centuries (properly referred to as ‘Scientism’) that led to numerous serial wrong turns, resulting in likely a millennia of scientific set backs…

3 tons

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Posted: 11/17/21 11:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Luckily there are those who feel it is important to focus on positive results from legitimate research, and learn from the negative and move forward. [emoticon] That is how and why our standard of living in terms of health, transportation, communications, etc. have reach the level they are now and will continue to improve.

BCSnob

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Posted: 11/17/21 11:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There are plenty of examples of pseudoscience on YouTube and other opinion websites; denial of this would be futile. This is why I attempted (but obviously failed) to point out one needs to choose their sources of information carefully. Peer review (What Is Peer Review) is a subjective process but it is better than no review (as is such on the above sources of pseudoscience). Plus many peer reviewed journals now require statements on funding sources and other possible conflicts of interest by the authors, which is not always evident from the other sources.

Instructions to Authors submitting to Energy wrote:

Declaration of competing interest

All authors must disclose any financial and personal relationships with other people or organizations that could inappropriately influence (bias) their work. Examples of potential conflicts of interest include employment, consultancies, stock ownership, honoraria, paid expert testimony, patent applications/registrations, and grants or other funding.


While there have been many highly visible failures in the peer review process; on a percentage basis (failures divided by total peer reviewed publications) the peer review process provides orders of magnitude higher quality information than from sources not reviewed.

Go review the Koch Brothers funded climate change study performed by UC-Berkeley professor Richard Muller for an example of the opposite of your complaint on funding sources driving their desired outcome.

How do you propose to fund scientific research and discovery if those interested in the outcome are not allowed to fund the work (more government funding from higher taxes, higher tuition, don't fund research,…...)?

* This post was last edited 11/17/21 12:28pm by BCSnob *   View edit history

3 tons

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Posted: 11/17/21 12:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

While I do appreciate your sincere candidness, my initial point was simply that ‘outcome based science’, i.e. that which is ‘deterministic’ (unfortunately, often Grant-funded), meaning positioned to lead to a ‘pre-determined’ outcome (aka ‘outcomes for hire’) should not be elevated to the standard of ‘real science’ as it is a debasement (actually a patent reversal) of the Aristotelian Scientific method (the wholesome pursuit no particular outcome) in what’s this now post-modern era, thus, the incremental reemergence of what’s known to be abjectly flawed, ‘medieval scientism’…I won’t pursue this further, except to say that this type of ‘adverse academic creep’ can be used to bolster many of today’s most prominent (or controversial?) science related topics, which can adversely impact cogent Policy making…JMHO,

Very Respectfully,

3 tons

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