Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: anyone seen one of these in person?
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Toy Haulers

Open Roads Forum  >  Toy Haulers  >  Toy Haulers

 > anyone seen one of these in person?

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 2  
Prev
valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 12/05/21 10:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

I would be concerned about insufficient hitch weight.
- A 5th wheel/gooseneck typically has a 20-25% of the trailer on the hitch and this represents a big part of why they tow so well.
- A bumper pull is typically 10-15%. Being too light is often the cause of sway.

By moving the hitch point further forward, it will reduce the percentage hitch weight.

If you are looking at trailers, just go to a 5th wheel if you want one.
If you are trying to fix an existing trailer towing problem, get to the scales and see if you are light on the hitch and if so, move weight forward.
If a 5th should sway, it has little effect on the TV In fact unless you are watching it it the mirror, you probably would not know it. This is because a 5th wheels pin is centered over the rear axle. A bumper pull sits on the ball quite a ways behind the rear axle. So a TT has a lot of leverage to exert force on the TV,,, and as the driver makes steering corrections, the ball goes left or right, sending the TT in the wrong direction, which necessitates another steering correction and on and on. It is a wonder that TTs tow well at all.
I think that the heavier pin weight of a 5th wheel plays a minor role in how well they tow.


The hitch mounting point over the axle helps but if it gets out of control, a 5th wheel will have no problem yanking a dually back and forth.

I recall a thread from a year or so ago about a guy who built a lift for the back of his 5th wheel to carry a big motorcycle. He was asking about putting lead shot in the front because it was swaying badly.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/08/21 11:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

@valhalla360, I gotta ask...How many GN or 5ver trailers have you towed?


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 12/09/21 01:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

@valhalla360, I gotta ask...How many GN or 5ver trailers have you towed?


I've had 4 over the years and been camping for 50yrs (towed campers).

Tvov

CT

Senior Member

Joined: 07/19/2003

View Profile



Posted: 12/09/21 04:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So, that is really just for toyhaulers? Looks like dramatic overkill for regular travel trailers.


_________________________________________________________
2021 F150 2.7
2004 21' Forest River Surveyor


dedmiston

Coast to Coast

Moderator

Joined: 01/26/2004

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 12/09/21 05:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tvov wrote:

So, that is really just for toyhaulers? Looks like dramatic overkill for regular travel trailers.


Toy haulers have much heavier tongue weight than travel trailers.


2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. AISIN trans & 4.10 rear. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • Hooligan #3

Toys:
  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230


dsrace

home

Full Member

Joined: 06/10/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/12/21 08:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

yes, toyhaulers typically have much heavier tongue weights then tt as they need to counter balance toys. each manufacturer is diff depending on what they spec the toyhaulers out for on ccc. there are a lot of manufacturers that advertise one can haul their sxs's in them when they cannot. not enough ccc to haul most if not all 2 seat turbo 1000 sxs's. i say this by either lack of width for track width with larger tires with diff offsets or not enough length and usually not enough ccc.

now i have owned 5 toyhaulers in the last 25 years. i do not have the tow time or experience of valhalla360, but i have owned/towed 1 38' GN enclosed and 1 34' FW in that time. i owned the 34' FW toyhauler for 10 years and every dune trip was either 14 hr round trip or 32 hr round trip, oklahoma or idaho dunes. someone mentioned ..... " By moving the hitch point further forward, it will reduce the percentage hitch weight." i will be the first to admit that i could be wrong about this ( as i am no expert) but wouldn't the 350lb GN assy increase TW by 350 lbs?? i understand that it creates a longer lever as in 6' longer, as it has to reach to the center of an 8' box. that longer lever shouldn't decrease TW or pin weight in the case of a GN. or am i envisioning that incorrectly??

here is why i have been looking at this particular bolt on conversion. i recently purchased a new custom toyhauler. empty it's 7200lbs with 1200 lbs TW. i asked that it be built with 20 to 25% TW as my sand rail is 1960 lbs wet. i have a 2 seat mid engine turbo 4 cyl sand rail. 60% of that 1960lbs is tech behind the axles. my 1st trip was in 45 mph gusting winds crossing 3 state lines. i kept my '99 f350 quad cab drw diesel as truck are crazy right now and i have owned and maintained this one for 14 years now. i only used it to toy the toyhaulers so it just turned 139k miles. i use the anderson wdh with sway control on this current toyhauler and the last. the last didn't work out so i sold it 1.5 years into ownership.

so loaded for a dune trip, 30' AOL with 26' of floor,12'6" to top of ac unit, apprx 10500 lbs loaded, this thing began to throw my dually around. the absolute worst was in dead side winds. the diag wind was concerning but not horrible. that 7hr drive to took 9 hrs! i stopped 4 times to adjust the wdh, little by little and it did not good. i had had to hit the brake controller lever twice as the trailer began to whip. 5hrs in i finally had enough, stopped and pulled the 2 spare tires from underneath rear end. they are held by an steel H frame with 2 tire winches, underneath up against the tail/ramp gate area. 2-235-85x16 14 ply salun's on black steel rims. not light weight and overkill for 2-7k lb axles. i moved them to the bed of the truck. i took my 120lb tool box ( yes i have weighed it) and placed that in the front bedroom to add TW. that took 85% of the sway out instantly. there is room in the from behind the tongue to move the spare tire carrier up front. i have not weighed the wheels but pretty sure there 65 to 70 lbs each plus the frame with winches. i purchased a 46lb steel wedge shaped tool box for the tongue. i can put my tools in there to add additional TW.

i told the salesman when i submitted my floor plan, that i cannot back the rail in. this is why i requested the additional TW. they use lippert frames and get what they get i guess but as they are a customer builder i asked anyway. yes the simple solution is to back it in. i am 90" wide with paddles in the rear and 80" in the front. there is only 84" of floor in the 1st half of the 14' of cargo area. scab wheel might work but i didn't buy custom to have to swap tires out. i did not stop at a scale on the way either and should've as i passed 2 that were very busy.

my thoughts with the bolt on GN was that an additional 350lbs of that hitch, plus the tool box and/or spare tire carrier should balance me out and add a huge level of control in side winds. what i like about this one is that it is removable if i sell the toyhauler down the road. i do not foresee that as it is a one of kind with a floor plan i have never seen before tailor made for i an my wife.

this is why i posted the link and asked. i appreciate all opinions and info!! i was considering a hensley or pro pride hitch but as i already have a GN ball for my fiver plates this works for the same price plus appears to add TW, imo.

one interesting note. the last sand dune trip was my 1st with this toyhauler. i had the trailer loaded and leveled with the truck sitting very close to level. on the way back i stopped to dump the tanks as the site i was in doesn't have sewer. dump station is only 4 miles away. while at the dump station i noticed the nose of the camper was high. i thought it must be a slight hump in the dump station pad and didn't give it a second thought. we got lucky with a diag tail wind for 75% of the drive home. i do get lucky sometimes i guess lol

so at our 1st fuel stop the trailer still looked nose high. the truck still looked level but the back end of the trailer was low. i turned on the level mate pro and it read 1.5" nose high. i grabbed a tape measure and read 2" nose high. i had no idea how that could happen. 4 hrs from home so just continued on down the road. wind shifted at salina kanasas as it always does! now we were fighting sway in cross wind conditions as the road curved. i was a little surprised ad i shifted another 70 lbs to the nose and thought that would help for the trip home. it wasn't bad but i did slow down when i saw it coming. tall grass in the ditches plus trees were helpful signs. got home and immediately proceeded to winterize it as below freezing nights were forecast for our area.

i had drained my fresh water tanks a few days before we left and we were hooked to city water in our camp slip. i pulled the drain valve to see if there was a little bit left and it looked like someone knocked the head off a fire hydrant! the drain valve on the 2 50 gal fresh tanks is a 1.5" dia discharge. its huge but drains quickly! apparently the check valve in the brand new water pump had a slow leak. for 3 days it filled up our 2-50 gal tanks or very close to full. one tank is over the front axle and the other forward of the front axle. that apprx 800lbs squatted the back end 1.5 to 2" apparently and added a little sway back to the drive home. i have never had that happen in all the toyhaulers i have owned.

* This post was last edited 12/12/21 03:09pm by dsrace *   View edit history

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 2  
Prev

Open Roads Forum  >  Toy Haulers  >  Toy Haulers

 > anyone seen one of these in person?
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Toy Haulers


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2022 CWI, Inc. © 2022 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.