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valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Posted: 01/02/22 07:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:

Where does OP say what truck they have. They haven't.
No telling if as one noted, it may be limited by factory hitch...as my 05 dw Duramax was limited to 4500 or 5000 lbs, as it did not come with a hitch of any sort.
y


He doesn't but the tow rating gives us an idea. Most 3/4ton and larger trucks push north of 14k tow ratings, so 12.5k suggests a high tow rating 1/2ton.

Yes, it would be far better if the OP provided the full specs on the truck including axle ratings along with the specific trailer model including all weight ratings.


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BenK

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Posted: 01/03/22 12:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Have given up using marketing nomenclature (150, 250, 1500, half ton, etc) and if do, ask what their GVWR & RGAWR

Most important is the RGAWR. That tells much

Why provided a HOW2 figure it themselves with simple math and a trip to the scales.

Even then, they will only have brochure numbers for the trailer they want.

This is what drives more sales for the OEM…another newbie bought too small or too large and another purchase of either smaller trailer or bigger TV…or just drive it and deal with whatever crops up.

Think like most newbies, this OP is looking for an OK from the collective and will get many as advisors have no skin in the OP’s situation…


valhalla360 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

Where does OP say what truck they have. They haven't.
No telling if as one noted, it may be limited by factory hitch...as my 05 dw Duramax was limited to 4500 or 5000 lbs, as it did not come with a hitch of any sort.
y


He doesn't but the tow rating gives us an idea. Most 3/4ton and larger trucks push north of 14k tow ratings, so 12.5k suggests a high tow rating 1/2ton.

Yes, it would be far better if the OP provided the full specs on the truck including axle ratings along with the specific trailer model including all weight ratings.



-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Grit dog

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Posted: 01/03/22 01:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

Where does OP say what truck they have. They haven't.
No telling if as one noted, it may be limited by factory hitch...as my 05 dw Duramax was limited to 4500 or 5000 lbs, as it did not come with a hitch of any sort.
y


He doesn't but the tow rating gives us an idea. Most 3/4ton and larger trucks push north of 14k tow ratings, so 12.5k suggests a high tow rating 1/2ton.

Yes, it would be far better if the OP provided the full specs on the truck including axle ratings along with the specific trailer model including all weight ratings.


Of course it would be great if everyone could use their words when they ask a question.
But fwiw, 12500lbs is exactly what the rated towing capacity of mid 2010s F250s with 6.2/3.73 are rated…. And wait for it. F250 and 350 Powerstrokes with 3.31s, yup 12500lbs rated towing cap.
Jus sayin….
PS, it’s ratings like this that the less than informed get hung up on. Anyone really believe a 6.7 power stroke truck, any of them, isn’t more than capable of towing 6.25 tons?

Yes a bunch of 1/2 tons are rated that much or more. But they’re not suitable for the tongue weight of any 10klb dry TH that I’ve seen.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 01/03/22 01:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

Have given up using marketing nomenclature (150, 250, 1500, half ton, etc) and if do, ask what their GVWR & RGAWR

Most important is the RGAWR. That tells much

Why provided a HOW2 figure it themselves with simple math and a trip to the scales.

Even then, they will only have brochure numbers for the trailer they want.

This is what drives more sales for the OEM…another newbie bought too small or too large and another purchase of either smaller trailer or bigger TV…or just drive it and deal with whatever crops up.

Think like most newbies, this OP is looking for an OK from the collective and will get many as advisors have no skin in the OP’s situation…


valhalla360 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

Where does OP say what truck they have. They haven't.
No telling if as one noted, it may be limited by factory hitch...as my 05 dw Duramax was limited to 4500 or 5000 lbs, as it did not come with a hitch of any sort.
y


He doesn't but the tow rating gives us an idea. Most 3/4ton and larger trucks push north of 14k tow ratings, so 12.5k suggests a high tow rating 1/2ton.

Yes, it would be far better if the OP provided the full specs on the truck including axle ratings along with the specific trailer model including all weight ratings.


Cmon Ben…first off, how can someone take a trailer to the scales that they don’t even own? (I suppose technically it’s possible with some conditional sale term but it’s not probable and won’t mean a **** thing. Because all he will get is brochure numbers unless the conditional sale also includes loading up for camping.
And what on earth do you mean “given up on marketing nomenclature?” Literally nothing has changed in “marketing nomenclature” since at least the 60s. I’m not as familiar with vehicles older than that. Maybe you think the marketing nomenclature has been a ruse for the last 50 years?
PS I know you’re smarter than this. And being a gear head you probably have many axle ratings memorized and certainly can tell the differences between a “150 and a 250”. Maybe even blindfolded. So I’m not sure where some of these statements come from.

Walaby

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Posted: 01/03/22 07:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

philh wrote:

bikendan wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

"one correction, 300 lbs of passengers are already accounted for in the payload capacity. Also some amount of hitch wt, maybe 100 lbs(?) is also accounted for."

I don't think so... Payload usually does not include multiple passengers, just a 150# driver and half a tank of gas and does not address the WDH/weight.

We do agree the OP has way more trailer than truck...

[emoticon]


Towing Capacity usually includes a 150lb driver and full fuel tank.
Payload Capacity only includes the full fuel tank. The driver is considered as an Occupant and not factored into the Payload Capacity.

Dan and Captain,
SAE J2807 specifies 150 lb driver and 150 lb driver along with 100lbs of hitch equipment. All the OEM's have signed up to follow the standard.

“Tow Vehicle Total Weight” (TVTW) for testing for ¾- and 1-ton trucks allocates 150 pounds for the driver, 150 pounds for a passenger, the weight of all tow package equipment, and 100 pounds of optional equipment (hitch ball, weight distribution bars, and such) split evenly between the front and rear axles.

Motor Trend summary article on J2807 Cliky link

Phil
J2807 is the TESTING standard. It doesnt change how payload is calculated. J2807 TESTING, which all manufacturers have signed up to, merely establish the test conditions under which the vehicle must be able to pass a test in order to establish the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW), which is the combined weight of trailer and tow vehicle. It is simply a standard test methodology to establish GCVW, nothing more.

It did not/does not change how payload is calculated. Look at your yellow sticker. It says combined weight of ALL passengers and cargo must not exceed xxxx lbs. It does not say all passengers except one that weighs 150 lbs must not exceed.

We all know towing a flat bed trailer with weight is far different than a RV and with an RV, one will likely exceed payload way before reaching their GCVW.

Mike

* This post was edited 01/03/22 07:31am by Walaby *


Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
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Grit dog

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Posted: 01/03/22 08:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ Aaaaand now we're firmly entrenched in the minutia, still don't even know what truck the OP has and "could" be haggling over 150-300lbs on a truck that has a 9-10klb rated rear axle and the same chassis as a F350...

MFL

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Posted: 01/05/22 05:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:


But fwiw, 12500lbs is exactly what the rated towing capacity of mid 2010s F250s with 6.2/3.73 are rated…. And wait for it. F250 and 350 Powerstrokes with 3.31s, yup 12500lbs rated towing cap.
Jus sayin….
PS, it’s ratings like this that the less than informed get hung up on. Anyone really believe a 6.7 power stroke truck, any of them, isn’t more than capable of towing 6.25 tons?

Yes a bunch of 1/2 tons are rated that much or more. But they’re not suitable for the tongue weight of any 10klb dry TH that I’ve seen.


^^This...it is what I was saying, pages ago. Many capable trucks, 3/4 or 1 ton have a 12.5K tow limit, but would work for the OP.

OP??? Where is he? Dunno, maybe forgot where he asked a question? If he could just add a clue, as to what truck, with 12,500 rating, some could answer his question.

Jerry





mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Posted: 01/05/22 06:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Or, the OP got what he was looking for and is sitting back watching the fireworks.

When it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, quacks like a troll... It's a troll.

Simple answer is an F150 with a 12,500lb tow capacity, you will never be happy with towing 9900+ over much distance. On the other hand an F250 with a 12,500lb tow capacity, you will be very happy towing 9900+ anywhere and everywhere unless you have an apoplexy any time the engine exceeds 2000RPM. Then, get the diesel.

The difference is duty cycle.


Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

Grit dog

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Posted: 01/05/22 08:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

Or, the OP got what he was looking for and is sitting back watching the fireworks.

When it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, quacks like a troll... It's a troll.

Simple answer is an F150 with a 12,500lb tow capacity, you will never be happy with towing 9900+ over much distance. On the other hand an F250 with a 12,500lb tow capacity, you will be very happy towing 9900+ anywhere and everywhere unless you have an apoplexy any time the engine exceeds 2000RPM. Then, get the diesel.

The difference is duty cycle.

Well said mkirsch
Maybe troll, maybe sheepish 1 and done poster...doesn't matter, it's rude either way.
However, in this case, he/she basically gave about all the info needed, other than discerning between bp or 5ver Toy Hauler.

I assumed bp trailer, which a 10klb "dry" TH has a gvw of likely 14-15klbs. It also has a tongue weight around 2klbs, with no heavy "toys" in the garage. Add abnormally heavy tw compared to an avg TT and generally a significantly higher profile (not many low pro TH out there) and it just aboot kicks you out of 3/4 ton gasser territory except in the best of conditions (flat land, no altitude loss).

I'm probably the least weight cop on this forum and I can say emphatically that there isn't a half ton out there that has the chassis to handle this trailer. I tried already and lost on that one....lol.
Our TH is supposedly 8klb base weight, so 20% smaller than the OP's.
Just for giggles, I tried hooking it to my new half ton.
No matter how I adjusted or cranked the wdh, that trailer still buried the @ss end of the truck. Right down to the bump stops. Sure bags or _______ could hold it up, but even in my book the little half ton was grossly out matched by the tw of the TH.

But good luck OP!

philh

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Posted: 01/05/22 05:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Walaby wrote:

Phil
J2807 is the TESTING standard. It doesnt change how payload is calculated. J2807 TESTING, which all manufacturers have signed up to, merely establish the test conditions under which the vehicle must be able to pass a test in order to establish the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW), which is the combined weight of trailer and tow vehicle. It is simply a standard test methodology to establish GCVW, nothing more.

It did not/does not change how payload is calculated. Look at your yellow sticker. It says combined weight of ALL passengers and cargo must not exceed xxxx lbs. It does not say all passengers except one that weighs 150 lbs must not exceed.

We all know towing a flat bed trailer with weight is far different than a RV and with an RV, one will likely exceed payload way before reaching their GCVW.

Mike


Mike,

From the Ford towing guide ...
All vehicles calculated with SAE J2807® method except Cutaway/Chassis Cab models.

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